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09/02/2006: "Erynn Laurie bemoans CR e-list trends and "academic wankers""

Erynn Rowan Laurie, one of the self professed creators of Celtic Reconstruction as an "ism", bemoaned the latest trends in Internet E-list CR discussions and likened the public's view of CR followers as "academic wankers".

"The other thing I've seen an awful lot of lately, not just here but on some of the other lists, has been the degeneration of CR discussion into pure linguistics," complains Laurie in a recent thread about list silence on Nemeton. "It's no wonder people think we're all a bunch of purely academic wankers, if that's all they see."

Laurie has evidently been feeling the on-line heat as of late. What she calls a "degeneration"

others consider becoming better educated or more demanding about respecting the cultural spiritualities they wish to apprentice. Relating back to her recent thread Beliefnet.com reported in an earlier blog entry, it was interesting watching an American debate native Gaels about Celtic spirituality, language and cultural worldview. From what I got out of the thread, their (native Gaels) opinion was that CR itself was the degeneration. So I guess it all depends on one's perspective. It is not a debate about "pure linguistics", IMO. It is a debate over the "importance" of linguistics and the part it plays (if any, depending on one's view) on the understanding of the personal development of a minority cultural spirituality, in this case a Celtic one. Laurie, an American, has no leg to stand on when linguistics become an issue and her Celtic Reconstructionism FAQ places little emphasis on the importance of language in developing a cultural worldview. For those interested in this public thread, you can find it at http://www.beliefnet.org/boards/message_list.asp?boardID=3748&discussionID=518641 and judge for yourself.

Laurie, who expressed her desire to see Nemeton remain open and renewed, goes further into why she believes CR e-lists are lapsing into silence, stating, "Part of it, I suspect, is that over the years some of the major movers and shakers have retreated from the lists in many ways. Various lines in the sand have been drawn, people pontificate without a lot of knowledge or practice to back up their points, and there has been an unfortunate incursion of the Trollish onto the lists as time has gone by as well. Again, it tends to chase away newbies and to discourage folks from posting into the vast silence that is the Nemeton mailing list of late."

Perhaps. But I believe this view is a simplification of the facts and glosses over other developments in the quest for Celtic spirituality in Neo-Pagan America, and a further questioning of the relevance of CR in the greater picture of things.

Before the turn of the century, there was little on the 'Net to go to in order to learn about developing a path of Celtic spirituality. So the audience was captive, for lack of a more respectful word, to the few lists around. Nemeton and Celtic-L had most of the early action that I saw, though I was not in the so-called Pagan Web arena until 1999. A majority came to the interest of CR moving from Wicca towards a CS type of path with desire for more authenticity, according to the claims I have seen. So I would guess there was probably a lot of common ground there between participants at that stage of CR development.

As Yahoo and other providers of Groups expanded in the late 90's, so did the potential audiences, both numerically and culturally. People searching for more info on Celtic spirituality came from varying backgrounds. Many, like me, came from purely academic interests, having studied European cultures, linguistics, and archaeology, with a desire to learn more about European spiritualities and their heritages. As a result, competing visions began to emerge on the 'Net from other sources, vying for one's acceptance. For some of us, it became more important for us to look towards the culture, its scholars, and its native speakers for guidance in trying to come to a better understanding of Celtic worldview. What some people who are unlettered and non-Celtic language speaking disdain as "academic wankering" is revered by others as an opportunity for enlightenment into the world of another culture's spirituality.

For an example of this in microcosm, one can go to the Imbas-Public Yahoo Group, which was first ONElist, then E-Groups, and finally Yahoo. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/imbas-public. Each merger enlarged the group and its membership, from 1999, to 2000, to 2001. Go to the group archives between 1999 and 2002 and watch Imbas go from a small fledgling group excited as a group of neo-Pagans searching for development of Celtic spirituality to its demise as an active organization in three years. As more people came to the public group list, it became evident reading the various threads that there was a variety of viewpoints developing as to how one could (or unfortunately for some, "should") go about reconstructing, not reconstructing, become hard core culturalists, etc.

By 2003, these debates and resulting polarizations to the respective viewpoints have lead to the lessening of relevance of the E-list as forum for spiritual development, IMO, which is the reason a vast majority sought them out. Lists became more moderated and more specialized, and in many cases less tolerant of expressions of differing viewpoints. Go to the front web page of Yahoo groups like Celtic Path, Imbas-Public, or any other serious Celtic interest list and look at the archived message postings listed monthly by the years and you will see this. The spikes in postings after 2003 will usually be the heated debates that flare up every six months. The rest of the months, the list are generally silent in comparison to the number of 500+ members. So this phenomenon of list silence is not a new trend.

Some of the "movers and shakers" have retreated because they have come to the conclusion that some of their positions concerning CR were difficult to defend publicly as more people with more scholarly background took to the internet and offered their opinions from a Gaelic worldview, backed up by fluent command of one or more Celtic languages and doctorates in Celtic studies from recognized centers of higher learning. Others left because they were sick of the debates. Still others began looking to other sources than e-lists for direction on spiritual development when it became clear there were better on-line resources developing. They remain on the e-lists just in case an interesting thread does a appear, or to make use of archives. The rest of the time they are silent and prefer to remain that way.

Also, many of us came away from that era feeling that CR as a religion didn't make the grade, although as a methodology practiced with scholarly input and Celtic worldview in mind, it was acceptable in certain cases, such as in reconstruction of languages like Cornish, for example. We noted that the issues of linguistics was the great big elephant in the room when it came to discussing Celtic spirituality. As a result, some of us prefer the alternative routes. Those who did not believe that comprehension of a culture's language was important defend their position often by belittling Celtic scholarship. In doing this, however, they cut themselves off from great sources of enlightenment when it comes to the ability of the American Diaspora to regain a Celtic worldview.

For one example, someone desiring to get closer to a G�idhlig worldview of spirituality can go to SAORSA MEDIA (http://www.saorsamedia.com/index.html) and find much better resources about the culture than debating the subject with people on an e-list who can't speak Gaidhlig, have never experienced Gaidhlig culture and have never had the opportunity to go to school and specialize in the study of it. One can literally spend months on this one site alone studying all the papers, the journals, the bibliographies, the studies on myths and traditions relating to Gaidhlig culture from people who have been there, lived it and experienced it. This is far from "academic wankering". Some call it getting better educated. What is happening is the "bar" is being raised and more is being expected by many of us, scholarly speaking, from those who would, as Laurie would say, "pontificate" about Celtic culture, its traditions, and its mythos.

The result of all this is that people withdraw to their own smaller groups, their own methods of learning, their own path development, with others of similar mind. Ten years ago it was a big deal to have an Internet website with an e-list. Now anyone can start one, so now smaller groups don't need to tolerate the intolerable related to the development of their spiritual path or have to be stuck under another groups broad umbrella that doesn't represent their thinking. I believe this trend in the development of much smaller CS communities will continue for sometime to come. With instant messaging, text messaging, blogging, private journals and the like, the group E-list is a dinosaur whose main function will become the archival preservation of the past. Even this particular Nemeton thread, on a list of 100's of people, has elicited less than a dozen posters in response.

In conclusion, Laurie goes on, saying," The silence is no one person's fault -- it's everyone's responsibility to keep a list going. We're all to blame here and we all need to take responsibility in breathing life back into the list."

Nemeton has been silent as of late because no one there has had anything to say, or if they do, they don't care enough to post it there. No one is to "blame" for this. Any list member lamenting the fact that certain subjects aren't being discussed need to start a thread and see where it goes. Judging from recent experience, it won't be very far. Lists like Imbas-Public and Nemeton have had their day. It remains to be seen if Laurie has had hers.